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Talk:Starfleet uniform (2230s)
Uniform colors Close to the colors mentioned on the page? - 03:11, September 16, 2009 (UTC) :Anyone? - 23:49, September 24, 2009 (UTC) Uniform colors - red and blue There seems to be one guy in a red uniform on the USS Kelvin bridge. It could be the lighting though. Archduk3 21:07, 10 May 2009 (UTC) :I also saw red uniforms on the Kelvin. I wonder if there was another division color shift between ENT and the Kelvin like there was during TOS and TNG. Both Robeau and Kirk wear blue, which is strange for the Captain and First Officer.--M Albie 07:31, 20 May 2009 (UTC) Are we sure that blue is the color for command during this time? I believe it's possible that the Kelvin was a science vessel (it had a crew of 800, many shuttlecraft, and at least one family aboard) of some sort and that Captain Robau, Kirk, etc, were part of the sciences division. The captain does not always wear the command division colors (there are a few instances, but the one I can think of is the last episode of TNG in which Crusher is commanding the Pasteur in a blue uniform). Also, there should be a distinction about the white worn by medical personnel, as 25 years later aboard the Enterprise, there are nurses in white with some of the officers (McCoy) in blue. MystRivenExile 01:58, 13 May 2009 (UTC) :Crusher did wear the red uniform in All Good Things.- JustPhil 02:01, 13 May 2009 (UTC) Hmm, you're right, good call. Not sure what I was thinking of in that case. But, the page confirms that it is possible (also see Krasnovsky). I suppose it's possible blue is command but I'm not sure why they would pull something so confusing, especially to non-fans. MystRivenExile 02:40, 13 May 2009 (UTC) ::They might have thrown that in there as an easter egg for the fans, since the uniform would change later in the movie anyway. Also, do we have any idea why the Enterprise mission patch was in use at this time? And I'm still sure I saw a red uniform in there, if anyone has images of the bridge on the Kelvin it would be a big help. Archduk3 07:18, 17 May 2009 (UTC) :::I seem to recall the red uniform as well, I think on the helmsman, and quite possibly right before the evacuation. However, I don't recall it before the evac, so it could have been the light. Anyone seeing it again in Cinemas? :) I also remember thinking at the time their similarities with 2390s TNG uniforms. Maybe why Nero didn't notice that they'd travelled back in time until Robau was asked the current Stardate... Evil mirror jakynes 22:56, 18 May 2009 (UTC) ::Watched the movie again the last day in IMAX and the helmsman seems to be in a darker red, but still couldn't tell if it was the red lighting or not. If anyone has screenshots or even better a crew shot from that day of filming, since at this point I would suspect any shot from the film due to the lighting unless it was from when they first walked onto the bridge. Archduk3 06:40, 25 May 2009 (UTC) :::I think it was an Easter Egg. Yellow was used as the command color in TOS, Red in TNG so for pre-TOS the writers decided to use Blue, the implication being that Starfleet rotates the colors over the years. That would be the best explanation why Red was used in TNG instead of Yellow. Teru 12:18, 09 June 2009 (UTC) Blue was seen as the command color in the 29th century uniforms. - Archduk3 03:48, 16 June 2009 (UTC) :Please forgive this rambling. :I wondered why the Enterprise arrowhead was used too then I watched Court Martial again. I noticed that everyone at the bar, including people who were not members of the Enterprise crew all had the Enterprise arrowheads on their uniforms. To me this may show that not every starship in Starfleet has a unique badge some if not most use the Starfleet standard arrowhead instead. Of course this assumes this is the standard possibly based on different real world space faring organizations like the China National Space Administration, and the United States Air Forces Space Command both of which use an arrowhead design in their logos. Of course this does not mention the NASA swoosh that is part of UESPA's logo. The NASA swoosh seems to have been stylized by Jefferies on the hull of the TOS Enterprise (Starfleet logo?). If I am not mistaken in the last episode of Star Trek Enterprise they wore uniforms with the ship badge on the left sleeve and the Starfleet logo with the NASA swoosh on the right. :I guess what I am trying to say is that not every Federation starship would use a unique badge on its uniforms so it on second thought does not bother me that that crew of the Kelvin have the arrowhead on theirs. :Thank you for your time. --Frank Columbo 06:28, September 23, 2009 (UTC) ::It was determined that after the destruction of the USS Kelvin the delta became the Starfleet standard, years ahead of the "prime timeline". As for TOS episodes, the use of the delta outside of Enterprise personal could be a costume error due to budget reasons or many other things, either way. - 15:49, September 23, 2009 (UTC) :::Has it ever been stated on-screen that the "Delta" is used by the Enterprise only? Do we state this on one of our pages? Unless this has been stated in an episode, we should perhaps reduce the amount of speculation in that regard. For what it's worth, the different symbols used may not show affiliation to a specific starship, but affiliation to a specific fleet. Maybe the "Delta" symbol is used by the whole "Exploration fleet", while the "Border Patrol fleet" uses the "Constellation" symbol and the "Core Defense fleet" uses the "Defiant" symbol... I guess we don't really know. -- Cid Highwind 17:07, September 23, 2009 (UTC) :: Starfleet insignia and Assignment patch both do a good job of keeping the speculation to a minimum, and their talk pages would be a better location for where this discussion has gone. - 17:18, September 23, 2009 (UTC) New Rank insignia pictures The insignia used in the 2230s consisted of black bands worn on the lower right sleeve of the uniforms. Enlisted personnel and officers holding the rank of Ensign wore no rank insignia. ( ) ---- Is that really true? I saw no "black bands" in the movie and the only ranks we ever saw were Lieutenant and Captain. I think the section might be fan speculation and should be removed. -FC 00:56, 20 May 2009 (UTC) ::I don't have screencaps, but I distinctly saw 1) Captain Robau with two and a half black stripes on his right sleeve, George Kirk with one-and-a-half (which would indicate Lt. Cmdr., even though he is referred to as "lieutenant"), and other bridge officers with one stripe and the rest with none. They were clear when you can see the sleeve cuff. Yahnatan 01:45, 20 May 2009 (UTC) I think we would need some clear screen shots. The only officers verbally addressed were Captain and Lieutenant. Thre is no information about Commander, Lt. Commander, or Ensign. We also cannot simply apply the later insignia to this era even though you may be right. -FC 01:56, 20 May 2009 (UTC) :It's a shaky shot, but I found one with Capt. Robau and a lieutenant - (IMAGE REMOVED) Yahnatan 02:47, 20 May 2009 (UTC) That would seem okay for one of the ranks. I'd be curious what other editors have to say about it. -FC 03:13, 20 May 2009 (UTC) :Saw the movie again today, did see rank insignia for both Robau (2 1/2 stripes) and Kirk (1 1/2 or maybe 2). Seemed to me they were silver, although it was kind of hard to tell because of the lighting. Given that both these uniforms and the 2250's AR uniforms were designed by the same person the rank insignia could be similar. - Killa0039 :::Actually, they're gold, not silver. The lighting is terrible. — Morder 06:08, 29 May 2009 (UTC) Here's two shots: *http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e197/insain_dragon/kelvin3.jpg http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e197/insain_dragon/kelvin2.jpg The bar are gold for sure, though someone with better eyes or a cleaner shot is going to have to take a look at the one of Kirk to tell if that's two or one and a half bars. - 01:29, September 25, 2009 (UTC) ---- I added these to the page, and can upload more, as they are already made, if anyone can find a rank not on here. - 11:58, December 11, 2009 (UTC) :The insignia are actually copper-colored. (The color can be seen here.) Interestingly, several "The Cage"-era stripes were also copper-colored: Chief Garrison, Spock. -- 12:10, March 21, 2011 (UTC)